Episode 25 – Botox and Anti-aging Treatment: How Baby Boomers View Ageing Physically and Emotionally

According to co-host Dr. Drew, Botox is the most popular, modern, non-surgical, anti-aging treatment.

He said that “Botox or Clostridium Botulism. So it’s an organism found in the natural environment within our natural environment and it’s largely inactive and non-toxic to the natural environment. So it’s used to reduce fine lines and wrinkles and it does this specifically by paralyzing underlying muscles within the body.”

Some of the reasons why Botox is being used is to it removes wrinkles, fine lines and even help stop sweating profusely. Dr. Drew also said that Botox is approved by the medication industry to be used for post stroke, overactive bladder, spasms in the muscles and rigidities, the chronic migraine and others.

In this episode, our Baby Boomers discuss their thoughts on anti aging, more information about Botox, its pros and cons, and they have touched a bit on other anti-aging treatments. There’s no doubt this will be a very interesting topic as the team once again offers their personal insights about healthy aging and what our bodies go thru as we age.


Wayne Bucklar:  You’re listening to the Baby Boomer podcast, our regular weekly look at life for Baby Boomers and the future for Baby Boomers and in fact prepping for Baby Boomers. This is Booms Day Prepping, a podcast of Baby Boomers talking about how we get ready for that next stage in our lives. And today our topic well I don’t think it’s even controversial anymore really, our topic is Botox and anti-aging treatments – why, when, why not. And to discuss that, we have a limited panel today, Glenn Capelli is not with us today but we are joined by Bron Williams, Brian Hinselwood and Amanda Lambros. Good morning to you all.

Bron Williams:  Good morning.

Brian Hinselwood:  Hello Wayne.

Amanda Lambros:  Hi everyone, Amanda here.

Wayne:   And as always, my co-host and compatriot in these matters is Dr. Drew Dwyer. Drew, do you have a view about Botox?

Dr. Drew:  Hello everybody. I love this subject, it’s one of my favorite subjects anti-aging and the fact that “Dr. Bo” plays a prevalent role in my life. Well more so my wife’s life than mine but when we look at anti-aging, it’s a matter of discussion that always brings for me humor, it brings fear, people are a little bit tense about having the discussion. I do love the fact that a lot of women when I discuss it with them, they’re just like a straight out there like “Absolutely darling.” And yet, some women are very precious about the fact that, “Oh my God. No don’t tell anyone I’ve had any work done.” But let’s begin by clearing up a few of the science facts and then we’ll move into what everybody thinks about it. But first and foremost, Botox in particular is probably the most common form of anti aging modern intervention or aggressive treatment that’s available in society. So Botox as it’s naturally or commonly known in society, it is the most popular non-surgical treatment format and it is a cosmetical treatment and millions and millions of treatments are provided worldwide each year. It’s a neurotoxin and it’s a poison, so it’s “Botulism,” it’s actually “Clostridium Botulism.” So it’s an organism found in the natural environment within our natural environment and it’s largely inactive and non-toxic to the natural environment. However, when it is introduced into the body, it has a specific mechanism that it does to the muscles and the serums with inside our natural skin and layers of skin. So it’s used to reduce fine lines and wrinkles and it does this specifically by paralyzing underlying muscles within the body. There are a number of risks around illness caused by botulism, some people can react with respiratory failure which of course can kill them and cause issues around respiratory or COPD. And just one gram of botulism or Botox could kill over a million people. So 2 kilograms of Botox could kill the entire world or earth population. So there’s this some interesting figures around Botox. There is a huge risk with Botox per se, not so much with the powerful poison that it is but it’s the way it’s used and if it’s used correctly. So of course, if anyone’s going to look at Botox and the use of Botox, we need to be very mindful of who’s giving the Botox, how the Botox is being administered and does the person who uses or is administering the Botox know what they’re doing, understand what they’re doing and of course briefing you as a client on the process, the side effects and the range of uses that Botox is used for because Botox isn’t just an anti-aging mechanism or serum, it’s also used fo people who use Botox for muscle contractures and rigidity, spasms in the disabled, it’s used for stopping profuse sweating and sweat glands in people. So there is a huge range of why Botox is used but of course, in the process of learning Botox we’ve learned that it’s an excellent anti-aging device, it will give you duck face and allow you to look seamless in the way that you appear because you don’t have any laugh lines, or smile lines or wrinkles when you smile and it stops facial expression and of course, this is in huge demand for the anti-aging. So that’s just Botox.

Wayne:  Let me just leap in here before you do Drew. For those listeners who are listening to our conversation today, let me just clarify something we say on our website. The show is for information purposes, this is not medical advice. If you are interested in seeking out any of the things we’re talking about today, you should seek your own independent medical advice from a qualified practitioner and the information and opinions expressed today on the show are for information purposes only and not intended to replace qualified personal medical advice for you. With that Drew, let me hand back to you.

Dr. Drew:  Great, correct. So as I said, Botox is commonly used in lots of areas and approved by the TGA and the Therapeutic Goods and the medications industries. As I said, severe sweating and the post stroke, overactive bladder, spasms in the muscles and rigidities, the chronic migraine and it’s also also used for off-label or not approved stuff which is what you have to be very careful about who’s using it, why they’re using it and are they qualified. So personally, I use and I have used Botox for different reasons for myself with my GP or my specialist. And of course, it’s one of my wife’s favorite saving accounts is her lipo, and lip and Botox account which of course well outweighs my book-reading money which of course I use to go to the pub. But what’s your thoughts on Botox? Do you use Botox and is it something you’ve ever considered panel as you age or something you would consider as anti aging as a treatment? Let’s go with Bron.

Bron:  Oh funny about that, let’s talk to me first. Short answer is no, I won’t ever use Botox. I don’t particularly like the idea of injecting something into my face. Secondly, I probably don’t feel that I have the need to do it. I am genetically blessed in that I have an oval-shaped face which is the best shape you can possibly have for naturally not showing the signs of aging and I can thank my parents for that.

Dr. Drew:  You can add in there that you are naturally beautiful Bron.

Bron:  Thank you. It’s so nice that it comes from somebody else, it sounds a little bit arrogant if I say it myself. But I also smile a lot, I always think that’s a good thing because that uses less face muscles. But also, I’m not averse to using good skin care and I have used good skin care since my mid-20s and obviously, some of that and currently, the products I use at the moment have an anti-aging component to it in terms of reducing the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, improving your skin tone and texture. So that said, I’m not averse to using small forms of anti aging or making the most of what I have but I wouldn’t personally use Botox. I do have friends who have used it and are very happy with the result.

Dr. Drew:  Brian?

Brian:  I’m intrigued by this. I also have never used it but then again, I so happy with myself, I don’t need it. But I have no problem with people using it and I think to a large degree, it makes people happy so that’s the whole point of not looking as old as you might be. But I’m intrigued by the fact that I didn’t know it was used for people who sweat profusely. And I was kind of thinking imagine having that done and you could show everybody how young looking your armpits were. They now look like a teenager’s armpits and I thought that would be really neat. But look, I think the problem comes Drew and Bron, you both touched on it is the use of all these things by barely qualified or non-qualified personnel. It seems to me if you go to any major shopping center in Australia, there are a number of beauty salons. Now I’m not suggesting that they all provide Botox or all that type of thing but what I’m suggesting is that there seems to be almost every week now a story in a local news and the papers online whatever of people having had some sort of Botox treatment that has gone wrong, something’s happened, the face has blown out, their armpits have dropped off, whatever it might be. And it just seems to me it’s very poorly regulated.

Amanda: Now I love the fact that you asked whether or not I would do this and I think at the moment I haven’t. In the future, would I possibly? I think I’d have to revisit it again kind of when I get closer to potentially needing it. And I think the reason that I sit on the fence here is my face is extremely expressive and I think that if I didn’t go to the right person or it was put in the wrong part of my face or something and it would take the expressiveness out of my face. I think I’d be wee bit devastated. So I haven’t had any yet but I’m open to it if the time comes and I actually need it. Now do I think other people should be able to use it? Absolutely. I think it’s a personal opinion and if they want to use it, absolutely go for it. But like I would suggest to any of my clients and anyone else that I talk to, please make sure that you actually do this through a reputable medical professional. There’s a lot of charlatans out there who can just say that they provide Botox and they’ll come to your house or there’s such things as like Botox parties. And I probably recommend steering clear of those and sticking closer to when you know that there’s actually gonna be a professional there who’s going to do the right thing by you and who’s covered by insurance and all that other stuff and has medical training in this area.

Dr. Drew:  Well, this is true. Not so much in Australia because we have very strict guidelines, we’re over regulated if we breathe oxygen but in other countries for sure and of course the cost of the treatment is expensive. Botox is not cheap. However, you can go to other countries such Asian countries and European countries where Botox is very cheap, it’s in high demand and everybody goes there to use it. Again, my advice to everybody listening today and all our listeners is be very, very careful, get your health literacy, go to a proper qualified and registered clinician. I would not let anybody Botox me that was not a medical practitioner. I wouldn’t even let a nurse Botox me. Now nurses are quite capable of botoxing and nurses in retrospect to this scope and what they do, however if I am going to allow someone to inject botulism into my body and to go near lines or nerve endings on my face that could one slight inch or move of a needle could make a disfigurement or a problem for me, I would rather sue a GP, or a doctor or a health professional who is properly registered and medically obtained as which I have the ability to get help from or to service myself legally with rather than going through the process of me trusting someone that I thought was or they told me they were. So my advice is go to proper medical practitioners, understand their process and what they do. They may have fully qualified highly skilled nurses that do it for them, that would be fine but go to that doctor first. I was in a clinic the other day just by chance where the nurses are doing the injections and they do it under the guidance of a doctor remotely. Not interested in that type of process at all, so just be warned and I’m gonna move the conversation now to there are alternatives. So if we look at the alternatives around what we look at for anti-aging, there are a number of things we can do of course, I would not say to somebody, “Oh my goodness, don’t get Botox because if you want Botox and that’s the thing that fancies you, go right ahead.” But for me, anti-aging begins way before we start to notice the size of symptoms of aging. So in reference to Bron’s comment she says she’s very pro with skin cream. So if I look at that, you’ve got to understand that more than anything the persistent and consistent use of anti aging lotions, serums and creams that we have access to and are able to use are probably more beneficial and will give you a better outcome than something as aggressive and short termed as Botox with less risk. Most of the problems that sit around aging in the skin are related to collagen and the production of collagen which reduces as we age. So as we get older, our body makes less collagen and that collagen gives the elasticity to our skin and allows it to be supple and moist and grow. So skin cells reproduce them constantly and we lose several layers of skin cells every day. So we should be replacing that collagen and feeding our skin layers the nutrients it needs. Good dermatologists that sit around anti-ageing will always recommend some excellent products. I use creams as a male and I recommend to all men, they should use some good, it doesn’t matter whether they’re female or male, it makes no choice to me but they are expensive creams I will say that. But I use creams every morning and I probably touch myself up a Botox once or twice a year about mid year and I find it’s just enough for me around the laugh lines and the forehead, I have a very, very, very strong forehead muscle which gives me those very deep lines in the forehead and the Botox removes them. But as for my eyes, bags under my eyes, things like that, I don’t have those issues because every day I use good creams. The other thing I would recommend would probably be don’t smoke, slap myself. The poisons contained in tobacco and cigarettes have a particular impact on the skin and the way we age.

Bron:  But also I think it’s around like you get to develop fine lines around your mouth mostly and smoking emphasizes that. And may I say to, if there’s any people who are younger than Baby Boomers, all these duck face thing that you girls do making that beautiful face, it is going to come back to bite you. You keep doing that, you’ll get more fine lines around your mouth.

Dr. Drew:  Well, fairly enough. Some of the tips when we do the anti-aging is the things they ask people to do very quickly in their life not only stop smoking because you’re sucking on the cigarette. The other one is stop using straws because it’s the same effect, that sucking on a straw, drinking through a straw gives you that same effect. If you go out to a nightclub, or a pub or a bar, anything you constantly see women sucking on straws with their drinks because they don’t like putting their mouths on glasses. But the choice is up to you but remember, every time you pull those muscles in, you are stretching skin and causing those little lines in the top lip which is something that I understand a lot of women don’t like.

Bron:  They do it to themselves unfortunately.

Dr. Drew:  Well I’ll throw in another point. Eat your antioxidants, so healthy aging, positive aging and active aging is also about nutrition, and hydration and keeping our body in homeostasis. So part of this also we can feed our body antioxidants and anti-aging materials by eating food that contains the right vitamins, and minerals and antioxidants. Believe it or not though Brian and Wayne, redwine is a great antioxidant.

Wayne:  I’m all in favor of that.

Brian:  I believe that.

Wayne:  In fact, I’ve been known to use red wine as a face cream.

Bron:  Excuse me Drew, why did you leave me out of it?

Dr. Drew:  Of course, I was just letting the boys know that drinking red wine is good. Too much red wine though will probably give you gout and this is the balance we have to make.

Bron:  Always in moderation.

Dr. Drew:  That’s right. I recently did a little bit of research and survey on some patients that I’m working with because they’ve got some issues around combinations of gout, are blood pressure issues, some urinary issues and so forth and some gastrointestinal issues. And of course, being a nurse doctor not a medical doctor, I can only give my advice to the point of information I receive and that is it was beautiful to receive from the different specialists the list of foods they should eat to increase their antioxidants, and anti-aging and make their gut more healthy and specific and to stop the risks of things like kidney and stones and kidney problems and urine problems. But again from another specialist, the other list on certain foods they should not eat were identical to the foods almost that they meant to eat. So of course, once I queried both those specialists, many of the foods are quite common, how does a patient make the difference? My response from both ends of the medical field was everything in moderation. So there’s a good learning lesson for anyone of those listening, really it’s open slather, everything’s in moderation. You can research all the information you like but I think if you’ve got a good balanced happy nutritional diet and if you’re keeping the basic minimum of 1,500 or one and a half liters to two liters of water per day in your diet, you’re gonna keep your skin very supple and you are anti-aging at a nice consistent place. As far as vitamins are concerned, I would recommend looking at vitamin B6 and B12 – so fishes, poultry, things like tofu and all these types of foods, almonds, and nuts – and of course, someone will say they have their issues as well but it’s about balance and moderation as Bron says. Is there any foods that the panel would eat that they know is probably good for their anti-aging because we’ve got lots of new foods now like chemichi and tofu, well they call them “archibowls.” Give me some of your suggestions.

Brian:  Archibowls sounds like an old English radio show Life with the Archibowls. Look, I eat a lots of nuts. I don’t eat them because I have known 30-40 years ago that would stop the aging. I eat them because I like them, the fact that they are good for me is a bonus. But I did read a lovely article not that long ago actually which suggested that men in general have less face lines than women in general. And one of the reasons they put it down to is that most men shave almost every day and so they’re always pulling their face into strange shapes to stop cutting themselves with razors and whatever. And it’s the extra use of the facial muscles that keeps the face more subtle and supple. And I think to some degree, it’s the same for actors who are portraying whoever they’re portraying on television, on stage, on whatever. And I think one of the problems is a lot of people don’t use their facial muscles very often.

Dr. Drew:  Well facial muscles are important. I know for a fact when we work in nursing homes, we often have activity sessions where speech pathologists, dietitians and other people, OTs in particular will come in and hold sessions with the residents, people who live in nursing homes and they do facial exercises – mouthing and mouth exercises, this also helps with the swallowing. Swallowing is a huge issue with aging and of course as we age, a lot of people will get Botox and other treatments to assist with mouth lines and muscles’ weaknesses. But as we’ve stated, these will have their side effects but primarily that muscle building in the face is very important or muscle building all over the whole body. If you remember listeners, I raised the issue of atrophy, muscle shrinkage and wastage. This is also a sign and symptom of aging but all I can say is concentrate on this subject we’re talking about Botox, anti aging and how to manage it. One of the big issues I find particularly in diet is that reduction in protein. We need to pack in the protein, so lots of protein, women should eat around 46 to 50 grams of protein a day minimum and more if they are pregnant, or breastfeeding, or if they’re athletic. And protein helps to build and maintain muscle mass and as we tend to lose weight as we age. So the more you age the more you lose weight, your atrophy begins, the muscles start to atrophy, building muscle and muscle strength helps to counteract that. Also protein helps with healthy hair, growing hair and nutrient building, strong hair so hair doesn’t fall out, the hair doesn’t become gray so quick although it is genetically orientated. And then adding to this, we should absolutely cut back on sugar and the types of sugar that we eat because they are antagonists of aging so they will antagonize the aging process because sugar is a burning substance once solidified or changed in the body’s metabolism, it has a burning effect that it will take away some of the nutrients your skin needs. And believe it or not as I add, healthy fats are important, there’s always lots of discussions around fats. But one of the healthy fats I eat a lot, not a lot but I eat as much as I can and people say, “Oh you shouldn’t eat them, they’re so fatty” and that is avocado. It is an extremely, healthy fat to eat as long as you’re eating it in moderation, it’s an omega-3 fatty acid protein and it promotes smoother younger-looking skin and it reduces conditions in the skin and it also takes away psoriasis. So maybe the Millennials have it down pat because they’re all heading out for their smashed avocado breakfast and their caffeine.

Amanda: So I’m sure you guys are well aware that the beauty agency is a multi-billion dollar agency that  it happens the money is just going through the door basically for beauty products. And if you spend long enough in a beauty store, you can find a cream that will do anything from whitening you to darkening you, to saying that it’s gonna get rid of all your wrinkles, and freckles and all that other stuff. And I think what’s happened is as a society rather than just accepting our wrinkles and our lines and how we look, we’re constantly surrounded by not only necessarily social media but what’s in Hollywood and on the movies. And so you see these women and men who are consistently getting older but look the same way they did years ago and so I think it’s more readily available than it ever has been. The price of it is now in reach of quite a lot of people whereas before it’s only be in reach for those who are rich and famous. And so I think the taboo around it has also decreased so you might go to like a dinner party with some friends and you find out that they’ve done it and then you start talking about it and realize, “Oh it’s not that bad and it’s pretty affordable,” so then you go ahead and do it yourself. But knowing that this is a multi-billion dollar industry is kind of really important to understand that somebody’s making money off of this and usually you’re just the one spending your money.

Brian:  We’ve given Botox a bit of a hammering from one direction or the other today, is it better therefore for somebody to have a facelift or breast enhancement or whatever rather than using Botox? I mean that way you’re not putting anything horrible into your body, it’s not going to react with anything and yes, you’re going in for a operation so obviously, you will be put to sleep and have anesthetic and all sorts of things but are you actually better to have a face lift?

Dr. Drew:  Well, I don’t know Brian whether it’s better. I always leave these decisions up to consultation between patient and medical practitioner. But for some people, when they look at the way they look and the way they feel, they perhaps more than likely have been trying products such as Botox and get to a point where they feel it’s no longer working. I talk to many practitioners over this and it’s actually reversing. A lot of practitioners are actually moving away from the over Botox work and getting their patients more on a trajectory or a timeline saying, “For this period of time, I’m going to use this amount of Botox this particular way.” There is also other things called “threading” where they will fill a fishline thread into the face. My wife has threading done about every three years where they basically enter the cheek of the face, they thread a needle with the thread down to let’s say from the side of the mouth up to the side of the eye and then once that thread is fed through that distance, they then pull it and it pulls the side cheeks up and the jowls in from the side of the neck. That’s like fishing line or catgut suture will then eventually dissolve away and of course that skin and that muscle will then fall again and they have it done again. Facelift is quite aggressive and permanent although it will not take away that anti-aging at some point down line. So anyone who wants to weigh up or juggle their  choices should always go and sit with good surgeons, sit with good doctors and more than anything, plan a pathway if you are determined to reduce aging and its side-effects dramatically because that’s what these surgeries do, then you should choose a pathway with a trusted surgeon that really understands what you want. But I also put it to listeners to do two things – listen to your surgeons because they do know best and many surgeons will often comment when I interview them that they will follow what their patient’s choice is and many patients are quite demanding and many patients will just straight-out demand and “No, you will do what I want.” So the surgeon is more or less advising against it but you know, it is still safe but he might say, “Well if I pull that too high, it may create duckface, it might move an alignment.”

“Oh, I don’t care.” It’s interesting when you read the information sitting around breast enlargement which also sits with anti-aging but the doctors will clearly tell a patient the one thing they are not able to achieve for that female patient is a cleavage and yet that is the one thing that a lot of women are determined that they want to achieve. So surgeries are not always the answer and yes, Brian they can always be dangerous and they have their danger components that sit with them. But I find for anyone who asks me as a patient counseling, go and sit with your surgeon, get all of the facts, test out a couple of surgeons before you choose the one that you’re going to go and stay with. But build a relationship, find out all the information and don’t necessarily just sit in a space that you know best as a patient because your surgeons are very experienced at it and they will eventually understand your body, the way you age. I do a number of tests and they may come up with a better process or a series of things that can be done. In a funny sense though, I often do laugh, I mean I wouldn’t like to wake up one day and find my navel is now my mouth or they’ve tied a knot on the top of my head that I had to grow a man bun other because they pulled my face up that tight and that’s where all the skin went, that’s all comical stuff of course. But I prefer for me, I don’t think and I convinced my wife is sort of has the same attitude she says, “Will you buy me a facelift when I’m 60?” And I’ve said to her, “Do you think you really need one?” I think aging gracefully is a good thing.

Bron:  I’ve just been sitting here thinking about all that we’re talking about and wondering whether when you said it’s not about what is on the outside it’s what’s on the inside and I didn’t actually jump to the whole food thing, I actually jumped to our attitude and something that you have talked about often which is emotional intelligence. And something that I have tried to do my entire life is to like my body at each stage of life that it has been.

Dr. Drew:  It’s a good thing to talk about.

Bron:  Yes, because I don’t know what how a man’s body changes over time but I have certainly observed that each decade, my body changes in its shape. What it was as a teenage girl and what it was as a 20-something was different, then by the time I’ve had my children, moved into my 30s then into my 40s, 50s and now as a postmenopausal woman and I’m probably at the stage where I do not particularly like the shape that my body has naturally taken because of the lack of estrogen. However, I’m very aware that this is a very normal part of the aging process for a woman and I’ve really quite intentionally all this time and said, “Okay, this is how my body is, let’s make the most of it. Let’s accept it, learn to love it in the shape that it is.” And I found that takes about a decade to do then of course a few decade comes in at all changes again and they go, “Okay, we’re doing this again.”

Dr. Drew:  Do you think we get used to Bron the fact that there’s nothing you can do about it for many people? I mean for the others “Nothing I can do about it, I have to make the most of what I got?”

Bron:  I think so and I supposed that if I’m doing that with my body shape and for me that is now carrying much more weight around my abdomen and my breasts actually being, gosh maybe all the weight that was in my breast has gone down to my stomach, I don’t know. So different body parts either gain fat or lose it, that’s what I’m noticing.

Dr. Drew:  And most men’s bums fall off.

Bron:  Well actually, I don’t have a bum either so mine’s falling off as well. So I just wondered whether we shouldn’t actually be applying that same sort of understanding or outlook to our faces as well.

Dr. Drew:  Well, I agree Bron. And as a gerontologist, when you’re good counsel and talked therapeutically with aging people or older people and I’ve mentioned this before, outside of the clinical domain in the public speaking sector, when I constantly hear older people bagging out being old, “I’m not old, I’m not senior” and we’ve had this discussion on our panel before. And I do think that you’re right, this sort of sits around that language and that philosophy that if we don’t respect and own and love ourselves as old and older and aging people, how are we going to expect or respect anybody else if they’re not? If people have ageist attitudes, is it mainly because we have ageist attitudes ourselves? We don’t want to age, we’re not old, we don’t see the beauty in age, because I do see the beauty in age. And I think there’s a great photographer and I can’t remember his name but what he does at the moment, he publishes pictures of old people, couples in pictures. And he does these pictures because their faces tell a story. And then he tells the story of the photograph of the person you’re about to see. And he asks you to look at the lines in their face or the shapes of their bodies and says, “This is this person’s journey, this is what their body tells the story of.” Now just recently, I posted on Facebook on my Dr. Drew Facebook site, a picture of an old couple naked – of course you couldn’t see any body parts – cuddling with the inference to this. Within a minute and a half of me posting it, Facebook had sent me a message saying it was offensive and that it would not be posted until it has been reviewed as offensive material. And yet, we can put young beautiful pictures and see young beautiful pictures of young beautiful bodies all over the internet with tattoos, with graphic art, with beautiful bodies and shapes and muscle and no one finds this offensive. I placed up a picture of a beautiful couple embraced with a lovely slogan about age and loving each other no matter what and because they were naked, but you couldn’t see body parts, they’re facing each other. Immediately, the people who protect all of this came back to me specifically and said, “This will not be showing, it’s offensive.” What do you think about that?

Wayne:  I think you have mistaken the algorithm of Facebook for real people. Well this is a decision made by a computer, it’s not made by a person.

Dr. Drew:  Oh is that right Wayne? I would not have known that, I thought someone’s vetted that.

Wayne:  No, that’s why they say it had to be reviewed because it has to be reviewed by a real person. So the algorithm looks at the amount of skin tones in the image as a percentage of the image size and the amount of continuous skin tones and says, “This is probably an offensive image and it will be reviewed.” The controversial ones are when it goes for review, how they make that decision as human people because you might be aware there’s been a battle about breastfeeding online, there’s been a battle about children’s images online, there’s been an image about old people’s images online. So that next stage of your photo about whether it gets reviewed or not, that’s where the human people come into it. And Facebook and others remember our businesses, so they currently hold huge weight about our cultural norms but they in fact abdicate their responsibility by always going to the safe side of the decision and we’re being pushed to this.

Dr. Drew:  That’s very interesting Wayne because just recently on the 5th of May, we had International World Nude Gardening Day, I put a photo of myself in the garden naked doing something and I always encourage all of my elderly which they do. They all send back photos and yet none of these are vetted out and and not stopped so that’s interesting. What do you think?

Wayne:  I’ve recently had a battle with them over publishing stories about marijuana being legalized in Australia but the stories have been prohibited because it promotes the use of marijuana. So they’ve taken an American centric global value and imposed it on the whole world. So we are being globalized in these views whether we like it or not.

Dr. Drew:  And so in that that globalization, we know ageism exist, it’s very much in the literature, we know that as empirical data. But again getting back to that conversation before we got distracted, I think that there’s a huge position for Baby Boomers just start to send more positive messages to the rest of society that aging is pretty cool and aging has a lot of benefits and we look okay. I will let Brian have a say in a minute but I do have a bit of a comical skit that I do talk about on stage and I talk about my wife being married 30 years. A woman stands in the mirror in the morning and complains about her body. She looks at herself and says, “I don’t like this, I don’t like that, I don’t like this, this is saggy, that’s going on, I want that tucked up, I want to  do this, and lady tuckshop arms and blah, blah, blah.” Men drop the towel and look in the mirror and we go, “Hey baby, looking pretty good brother.” I do believe from a man’s perspective that men a bit more, “I love my aging body, the way I am, and I’m pretty cool. I’m doing alright.”

Bron:  We’ll give it another term Drew.

Dr. Drew:  Yes, but I don’t know, you tell me. Are men a bit more, complacent and accepting over their bodies more so than women as we age and is should this be changed? Because I think we need to be focused more on, “Hey, age is okay. These wrinkles tell stories. My skin is here because of a reason.” Sure we can adjust it and and try but at the end of the day like you said Bron, it takes 10 years over that decade to get used to the fact that I’ve stepped over into this space. Brian, is this an issue for people like you who are in theater, images is everything and does an image plays a big role in your life?

Brian:  I’m sure it’s an issue for everybody Drew. I think one of the differences between male and female getting up, have a shower in the morning and looking in the mirror is I think there’s far less emphasis on all the men looking terrific than there is on older women looking terrific. And this is I think all created by the media who show pictures of, let me just use an example of Jane Fonda who is 70 or 80, whatever she is. She looks absolutely stunning. I hate to think how much she spent on having a facelift. But then you look at somebody like Judi Dench, who is kind of the same age, I don’t know what age they are. But they are about the same age, who has all the wrinkles, has everything, her body’s not the body of a 20, or 30 year old or whatever, she’s perfectly happy with it and she looks brilliant.

Dr. Drew:  And that’s right and from my perspective, I think Judi Dench looks far more interesting.

Brian:  Well, she does. The media have led us to believe that women should look beautiful (inverted commas) for their whole lives and they don’t, they shouldn’t and they shouldn’t have to feel what they do.

Dr. Drew:  Well I don’t think anyone should be looking at fame. We can’t look at famous people Brian.

Brian:  No, anybody at all. Why should Bron or anybody else, your wife, why should they feel, “Oh, I get to rid these wrinkles, I’ve got to this, I’ve got to do that.” It’s just a part of life, it’s just a part of as you say that this photographer you were talking  photographing older people and telling their story. If you just got a flat face or heaven forbid the awful duck faces that you see apart from the fact that you’ve been really, really silly, there’s nothing else to tell, there’s no story there.

Bron:  I agree Brian. I’m so glad that it came from you first rather than from me because I do believe that women and their bodies are under much greater scrutiny their whole lives than the bodies of men.

Dr. Drew:  But let me ask you Bron as a woman who’s in her 60s, like you said it takes that decade to move past it and of course, you’re aware of it because you are a woman so you can speak there. But is it a place for Boomers in anti-aging to realize that this is a part of anti-aging that as we age we accept it or do women still get stuck in that space of looking at the Jane Fonda’s and the Bette Midler’s and so forth in their 70s who just look outrageously beautiful at their age?

Bron:  What I do think that stands all of us and women in particular in good stead is that we get to from about 45 onwards, we get to the point where we start to really like ourselves. And we move much more into that space, “I really don’t give a stuff what anybody think of me, what I wear, how I dress, what my body shape is like.” And I think it’s that natural ability that we have as we age to care less and much less about what other people think of us and whether we conform to some sorts of standards. I actually think that’s our saving grace.

Dr. Drew:  Is it a saving grace Bron or do you think it could be and I’m being the devil’s advocate, the saving grace for the point of conversation? Or do you think it could be also seen as a negative attribute of anti aging or aging? And that is, “There’s no point, I don’t care, I don’t care what anyone else thinks.” Or is it a positive thing?

Bron:  Totally positive, the women I know who are round in the middle like all of us get at this point in our lives who are wearing jeans and flowing tops, who are dressed in brightly colored kaftans, who are just really in a sense coming into their own as women. For them it’s a time of rejoicing and of celebrating the fullness. That’s a term that we don’t talk about a lot with women’s bodies in the West but in terms of Eastern cultures, in pagan cultures, that whole notion of fertility, and fullness and roundness was celebrated. Now we don’t celebrate that in Western culture but it happens to us women as we get older.

Dr. Drew:  Loving the skin you’re in thing.

Bron:  Totally and knowing that it’s actually healthy. It’s healthy for me to be carrying the weight where I am because it’s protecting my internal organs. So I think it’s about getting to that point of going, “I think I’m fantastic.” And I really don’t want to be Jane Fonda, it takes too much hard work and that’s not about giving up. That’s about saying, “Life is wonderful.”

Brian:  I do think if people were to stop buying kaftans, I didn’t realize you can just buy those, they would have more money.

Bron:  Camilla Franks makes the most beautiful high-end kaftans.

Dr. Drew:  Well I mean, I like to take that balanced approach too. I mean it’s not that it’s being hypocritical but I’m into anti-aging but as you see as a gerontologist, I understand a lot about it. But the fact that anti-aging for me is a mindset, and it’s balanced and it’s an emotional intelligence thing. I know I’m aging but I know because of the science and the study of it and what I do that I can age well. I can age a lot better than my parents did. When I look at anti-aging creams, anti-aging foods, superfoods, I take my shakes, I use CBD oil and hemp every week because I know it affects as it cleans your body. CBD, a marijuana oil of course and hemp seed, and hemp husk and hemp protein, I only use it once a week but I know this has massive impacts on aging and productivity of building healthier skin, healthier liver, healthier systems. But I also balance it by walking and skipping my weight off but I also love the fact that I’m getting older and I do like my gray hair, I don’t dye it, I think it looks quite sexy, I get a bit of George Clooney. I have a beard, what’s his name? Sean Connery. But for me that anti-aging can be two-sided. It can be, I’m doing these things to anti age as I do age but I don’t want to have an anti aging attitude. I don’t do it because I’m anti-getting old if that makes sense and I think sometimes particularly for our Boomers listening, make a decision for yourself – are you anti aging or gonna look at anti aging because you don’t want to grow old or because you want to grow old well? So I think this is a good question for Boomers to reflect on and ask themselves, how do you want to age? Because the Botox and so forth are there, people will get it, people will use it, people will have access to anti-aging products. But I think anti-aging itself is a lot to do around mindset and of course as I said, without sounding hypocritical, I like to sort of keep a foot in both graves, I like anti-aging and how to use it well, but I’m not anti ageist. I think growing old is a marvelous wonderful thing.

Brian:  I think saying you’ve got a foot in each grave was maybe a step too far.

Bron:  Yes, I was going to say something similar there. So to quote Godot, we are born astride a grave.

Wayne:  Indeed and we’re also born with a clock in one hand and an anxious producer in the other so it’s time for last thoughts ladies and gentlemen. Brian, would you like to lead?

Brian:  Look, bearing on what we’ve touched on which has been mainly botox and the me advantages or disadvantages of it. I’m very much an advocate of mind over matter, mind over body matter in this particular case. I think if you’re a young as you can be in your mind and I don’t mean necessarily being childish. But I think if you can stay young mentally, it does an awful lot for your outward appearance and I hate to say this but I feel sorry, I mean I hate shaving every day. I just think it is so annoying. So if I was going to have any medical thing, I would have laser or whatever it’s called on my face so I don’t have to tell you every day because I feel quite sorry for women who don’t have to but almost always do put makeup on every morning and it takes depending on what they’re doing obviously half an hour, or 15 minutes or whatever it might be. And I just think you’re doing so much more if you didn’t have to do that and you’re doing it really so other people think you look good. The same with Botox, people do it so that my husband, my boyfriend, my next-door neighbor, somebody else will think I look really good.

Wayne:  Thank you Brian. And Bron, last thoughts?

Bron:  I totally agree with like what they say the beauty starts on the inside. I think our attitude to aging, that’s on the inside, what’s going on between our ears and I had long maintained that I have absolutely no control about over how long I’ve been alive on this earth but I do have control over what goes on between my ears. So keeping a youthful outlook on life, keeping myself up to date with what’s going on and enjoying the stage of life I am at, I think that is the best elixir of youth.

Wayne:  Thank you Bron. And Drew, do you have a final thought for us?

Dr. Drew:  Well I’ll stay in the positive aging space if I may. But I believe there is a fountain of youth and I believe that fountain of youth sits with inside our own bodies because we are componently made up of water and it’s also sits on your mind and your talents, so here’s my anti-aging tips – eat right, protect your skin, enjoy your exercise, get plenty of sleep, make and connect and cultivate friendship, help others wherever you can, keep laughing it produces good storylines and if all else fails, always tap onto Dr. Bo for a bit of assistance.

Amanda: I think one of the final things I want to leave you with is know that this is a personal opinion but definitely do your homework before you go and get this done because there’s nothing worse than someone like me having a really expressive face and then having it done and losing the ability to be as expressive as I always have been.

Wayne:  And that ladies and gentlemen brings us to the end of the Baby Boomer podcast except perhaps to invoke Glenn Capelli who if he was here would quote the sunscreen song to us where it says, “Entrust me on the sunscreen.” So with a nod with Glenn and his musical preferences. You’ve been listening to Booms Day Prepping, our regular look at life for Baby Boomers. This week, we’ve been talking about Botox and anti-aging treatments. We’ve got a whole lot more we can talk about there, we haven’t got to the cosmetic dentistry and the hair implants and a whole raft of other things, the testosterone treatments, some hormone.

Dr. Drew:  Oh look, they’re gonna make for some great podcasts I think.

Wayne:  All sorts of areas that are coming soon but today we’ve given Botox, well we’ve taken the wrinkles out of it and gave it a good shake really. And once again, let me just reinforce as we said earlier, our show is for entertainment, it’s not in lieu of medical advice, please seek your own advice if you’re looking at acting on any of the information you’ve heard today. We’ve been joined today as usual by our panelists a little less in number this week, we’ve been joined by a Amanda Lambros, Brian Hinselwood and Bron Williams, thank you all.

Amanda: See you guys, have a great day.

Brian:  Thank you.

Bron:  Thanks, good.

Wayne:  Drew Dwyer has been my co-host, thank you Drew from being with us.

Dr. Drew:  Thank you everybody.

Wayne:  And my name is Wayne Bucklar, this is the Baby Boomer podcast, Booms Day Prepping. In this episode, we’ve been looking at Botox and anti-aging treatments. Why and why not and we’ve heard a mixture of views from the members of our panel from our gerontologist, we’ve heard people who do use Botox, people that don’t use Botox. If we had to name a conclusion for today’s episode, I think we’d say on balance, love who you are, love the skin you’re in, take care of it, take care of yourself and do what makes you feel good.

Dr. Drew:  Yes, I agree Wayne. I think take care of your body, it’s the only place your soul has to live in.

Wayne:  This is Booms Day Prepping.

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